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Brad Thor is the author of a series of popular
thrillers that features a character called Scott Harvarth, a former U.S. Navy
Seal and Secret Service agent who becomes a counter-terrorism operative.
Brad Thor graduated cum laude from the
University of Southern California where he studied creative writing, film, and
television production. Prior to becoming a novelist, he was the award-winning
creator, producer, writer and host of the critically acclaimed national public
television series, “Traveling Lite.”
In addition to writing thrillers, Brad
Thor has appeared on television to discuss terrorism and how closely his novels
of international intrigue parallel the real threats facing the
world today.
He has also served as a member of the
Department of Homeland Security’s Analytic Red Cell Unit. And he has lectured
to law enforcement organizations on over-the-horizon/future threats. He has
also been a keynote speaker for the National Tactical Officers Association
annual conference. In 2008, he shadowed a Black Ops team in Afghanistan to
research his thriller, “The Apostle.”
His latest thriller is called “Rising Tiger.”
Brad Thor was interviewed by Paul Davis.
IACSP: I read “Rising Tiger” and I enjoyed the
novel. You describe your thrillers as “Faction.” For example, I understand the
brutal battle between Indian and Chinese troops on their border, and the Indian
organized crime “Soda Pop War,” are two true events you include in “Rising
Tiger.” Can you tell us what you mean by “faction”, and can you describe the
two true events?
Thor: I call what I do ‘faction’, where you don’t know where the facts end, and the fiction begins. And this year with “Rising Tiger,” my goal was to put the action in the ‘faction’. When I write my books, I like to choose a geopolitical set piece as the backdrop. Preferably something people aren’t seeing much of in the media. When I read this true story about Chinese troops crossing the line of actual control in the disputed border region with India two summers ago high in the Himalayas and attacking with the Indians with all these home-made weapons, because there are no guns or explosives allowed in that area, I was riveted by this. I said, why am I not reading and hearing more about this in the media? I realized there are a lot of reasons for the United States to be more of a formal ally with India, not the least of which is that the United States is the world’s oldest democracy, and India is the world’s largest. We learned during COVID about the supply chain, and how much is made in China. China is not a good partner for the United States to be dependent on, from cholesterol medication to whatever you find at your local Walmart. I like India on many levels, but I didn’t know much about it. So how do I set a thriller in India? None of my contemporaries have done it. India is a fascinating place for espionage, and what if we took this association called the “Quad,” that exists in the real world. That’s India, the United States, Japan and Australia. What if the United States wanted to create an Asian version of NATO, and they sent a kind of shadow diplomat over to India to begin talks, but the Chinese caught wind of it and decided to assassinate the diplomat? What kind of firestorm would that kick off? That’s the basis for the book. It starts with the horrible six-hour hand-to-hand medieval-style melee in the Himalayas, and the next chapter is the assassination of the diplomat and it just rolls on from there.
IACSP: Can you describe the Soda Pop War?
An unusual name for an organized crime gang war.
Thor: Growing up in Chicago and having friends
in New York and New Jersey, I thought we had some colorful mafia wars. But some
of the organized stuff that is happening in India is fascinating. I didn’t
realize the links between organized crime and terrorism in India, and how much
hand-in-glove it goes. The Soda Pop War happened to deal with a particular
Indian crime syndicate that were using pop bottles as weapons. It was very much
like a Sharks and Jets kind of thing, except instead of switchblades, they were
using soda pop glass bottles. This very aggressive faction was willing to take
it right up to the edge with what they did with the soda bottles. They were so
brutal. A nasty bunch.
IACSP: Most interesting.
Thor: My problem with this book was not what to include
about India, but what to leave out. It’s a spy thriller, and I want you to take
it to the beach and keep flipping the pages, but I was riveted by the research.
IACSP: How would you describe your
series’ protagonist, Scot Harvath, and how has he evolved over the twenty years
you have been writing about him?
Thor: I have a couple of things to say about
Harvath. First, he’s my alter ego, in the same way I’m sure James Bond was for
Ian Fleming and Jack Ryan was for Tom Clancy. I like to joke that Scot Harvath
gets to do the things my wife won’t let me do. I wanted to create a character
where if the enemy isn’t going to abide by the Geneva Convention, or the
Marquis of Queensberry Rules, I wanted the United States to have somebody who
wasn’t expected to meet the enemy on the battlefield and have one arm and one
leg tied behind his back. I wanted the United States to say we have established
a way to do this with plausible deniability. We will let you go and do what it
takes to achieve the mission. It is kind of based loosely on the idea of
achieving the mission at all costs from “Wild Bill” Donovan and the OSS, the
precursor of the CIA, and Donovan’s maxim was “If you fall, fall forward in
service of the mission.” If you are going to send out somebody to do some of
the nation’s most dangerous business, you are going to send them out
unrestrained – no rules. You need somebody with a good, solid moral compass.
You cannot send out a sadist. You want somebody who will break the rules only
if it is absolutely necessary. People have joked that Harvath is kind of a Boy
Scout, and he is to a certain degree, in that he has a code. At the base of
everything is his belief, which is my belief, that you cannot have the American
Dream without those men and women willing to protect it. Without them we have
nothing. My wife can’t go the grocery store and my children can’t go to school
safely if we don’t have those brave men and women, whether it is in the
intelligence community, the military, or law enforcement. They are all critical
to us enjoying peace, stability and prosperity.
IACSP: As George Orwell reportedly said, “We
sleep soundly in our beds, because rough men stand ready in the night to do
violence on those who would harm us.”
Thor: So I send Harvath into the world to do dangerous
things and he doesn’t have any rules, but he wrestles with it, which is the
right thing to do. How do I achieve this, because for him, coming out of the
Navy SEAL community, success is the only option, and the only easy day was
yesterday. As Harvath has developed, I think he has given voice to a lot of people
in the law enforcement, military and intelligence community who are out there
risking everything every single day.
IACSP: Is Harvath based on a particular
Navy SEAL or someone you’ve met?
Thor: Harvath is kind of a slew of people that I know in
different places, even down to his name. I know somebody in the judicial branch
with the last name Harvath. His first name Scot was taken from my brother, but
he is really a makeup of several people that I know in various communities that
are working hard to keep America free form attack. I spent a lot of time with
these people. I rely on them to help me do my books.
IACSP: Do your friends in the various
communities act as your sources? Do you run things by them and ask them to
authenticate things?
Thor: All the time. The national security
advisor in the Trump administration, Robert O’Brien, was a neighbor of mine in
college. That Chinese attack in the beginning of “Rising Tiger” happened during
the Trump administration, so I was able to talk to Robert and without reveling
classified information, which he would never do, he told me some very
interesting details.
IACSP: Do you think an alliance between America
and India is a counterbalance from the threats from Communist China?
Thor: I do.
I also think a stronger relationship is an excellent bulwark against Russia. I
think now we have such an opportunity to deepen that relationship within and so
much benefit can come from it, such as manufacturing. I was stunned during
COVID to realize how dependent we were on China. It is crazy to depend on an
adversary. Two democracies bracing arms is a good thing, particularly in that
region.
IACSP: Do you think China is going to invade
Taiwan in the near future? And if so, what do you think the U.S. should do?
Thor: Taiwan is an important player in the semiconductor
industry, and we would not like to lose our supply of semiconductors. You see
what our support has done for Ukraine against Russia, but Russia has turned out
to be a paper tiger. You get peace through strength and superior firepower, and
we need to let China know that making a move on Taiwan is not a good option.
IACSP: What do you think of the killing of
al-Zawahiri in Afghanistan? Is al-Qaeda still a threat to the U.S.?
Thor: I think al-Qaeda is always going to be a
threat. I was thrilled that they got al- Zawahiri. I think it was a fantastic
piece of intelligence work that they were able to track him down and locate
him. It was a good, clean hit. We’ve been after that son of a bitch forever, so
I’m glad we got him.
IACSP: I read that you were a member of
Homeland Security’s “Red Cell Unit.” Can you describe what the unit does and
what your role was?
Thor: I did Red Cell stuff for the Pentagon, and I also did
it for Homeland Security. Everybody knew that 9/11 was a failure of
imagination. Too often we expect what is coming down the road will look like
what is in the rearview mirror. Our government said we want to be six or seven
steps ahead of the bad guys. What they did was invite creative thinkers from
outside the Beltway, like me and Michael Bey, the director. They had us come in
and help them wargame different scenarios. I can talk about one scenario that
was published, but other than that I can’t talk about it or put it in my books.
They wanted me to do for them what I do for my books, which is to come up with
these very thoughtful, real-life scenarios that are based in fact, which will
help them think creatively. I think it was one of the most forward thinking and
aggressive programs the federal government ever put together. As the son of a
United States Marine, it was an incredible honor for me to be asked to serve my
country, not by picking up a rifle, but by using the gray matter between my
ears.
IACSP: Another thing in your background
that I find interesting is that you shadowed a special operations group in
Afghanistan. Can you talk about that?
Thor: I was invited to go over there as these guys were
fans of the books. It was unofficial and I went over and spent a couple of
weeks with them in Afghanistan. They said they didn’t know how I would react,
so they reserved a hotel room for me in Kabul. They said if I got off the plane
and was frozen and was not going to be able to handle moving around the
country, they were going to park me in the hotel for a couple of weeks and grab
me when they were done with what they had to do. It was fascinating. I learned
a lot about the “Pashtunwali,” their code of honor. We would not go to a
village where we had not been invited by the elders. If you were invited in,
they would fight to the death to protect you. I was also fascinated with my
guys moved around with a ton of Viagra. Because some of the elders have three,
four wives and some married younger girls and they are considerably older, and
erectile dysfunction is an issue. And they can’t get the little blue pill over
there. It was interesting to learn about some of these Afghans who had no
choice but align themselves with the Taliban, because it was the only way to
survive. But they didn’t believe in what the Taliban were doing, and they
didn’t want that for their children. It was also interesting to see the way
they look at things. It is family, village, tribe. It is an interesting country
and so sad that they have backslided so much since our departure a year ago.
IACSP: Can you say what unit you went out
with?
Thor: No. I promised I would not say.
IACSP: I read you were threatened by Islamic
terrorists over something you wrote in your books. Can you tell us about that?
Thor: I had a thriller called “The Last Patriot,” and the
concept was that there was a chapter missing from the Koran. There was a lot of
real-life evidence that suggests that there was kind of a deadline put on the
followers of Mohamad. They keep showing up with little scraps that Mohamad said
this and that, and then the person in charge of compiling the Koran said,
alright, on Friday at five o’clock we are closed for submission. No more
entries. Several years ago, while during work on the Grand Mosque in Yemen, all
of these old parchments were found. A team of German archaeologists and
specialists were invited in by the Yemen government to examine and date all of
this stuff. They said this is stuff from the time the Koran was compiled. The
Yemen government shut that down right away, because in the Muslim faith, the
Koran is a perfect copy of a perfect book in Heaven, so there can’t be things
that didn’t make it into the Koran. What is interesting is that over the course
of his lifetime, Mohamad contradicted himself. And his followers said you said
this fifteen years ago, and it put him in a tough spot. And he came up with
abrogation and said to his followers was, “If the Angel Gabriel revealed
something to me today and it conflicts with something I said in the past, what
I say today takes precedent and abrogates what came before.” So I had an idea
for a thriller in which is a missing chapter of the Koran is discovered and if
the chapter could be authenticated, it would completely abrogate everything
that came before and absolutely change the Muslim faith, cutting the legs out
from under the hard-core radical the Islamists.
IACSP: I take it those hard-core radical
Islamists were not thrilled with your idea?
Thor: It pissed off a lot of followers of that faith. We
can make fun of other faiths, but Islam expects a protected face in the public
square. And that is just too bad. I said I have the right to write whatever I
want. You don’t have to read my book. I got a lot of death threats, so we ended
up moving our house and we learned very quickly how to dial our security way,
way up. I had a very excellent Muslim FBI character in the book, and it was
balanced and not unfair to Islam, but there are some people in that faith that
don’t want anyone saying anything.
IACSP: Are there plans to film any of
your books.
Thor: We are now at a big studio in Hollywood, and we
have the director that I wanted, and the producers are fantastic. I am sworn to
secrecy because the studio gets to break the news once they get the writer.
IACSP: Good luck with the film and your
book and thanks for talking to us.
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